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The Republican argument that reasonable laws means that guns will be taken away is a fallacy meant to manipulate and distract.

The Republican party uses all the methods of argument that are illogical and false when examined with a little critical thinking.

The U.S. has drastically reduced driving injuries and fatalities by mandating certain automobile restrictions. We have drivers' licenses with age limits, and before you can get on the road, you have to pass a test.

Drivers not only need licenses with pictures, their cars must be insured and registered with state government. We've mandated speed limits and various kinds of traffic laws. We've instituted mandatory seat belt use across the country. We've lowered the alcohol limit for drunk driving, and have increased penalties. 1/2

How to Prevent Gun Massacres? Look Around the World-
newyorker.com/news/our-columni

Also importantly, some vehicles are not considered "street legal." They're too dangerous and unsafe to be on the road, so for everyone's safety, drivers of such vehicles have other options where they can drive them.

We know we cannot end auto accidents and fatalities. But like the restrictions we all accept with driving, if we mandate common sense gun restrictions, we can drastically reduce gun violence, injuries and death, even though we'll never eliminate them. And that's worth it.

Just because we have drivers' licenses doesn't mean the government is coming to take away our cars. The same is true for guns. Not everything is a slippery slope.

The Republican party wants to know what works? It's not arming teachers. It's definitely not a whole system of security at a school. It's not leaving kids inside a cement block with one door.

It's this. This works. 2/2

@TonyStark we did all that and somehow the government didnt take peoples cars. Most people own cars. Sine people have several cars and a few nutjobs collect cars and have more than they can possibly use, all perfectly legally.

@TonyStark This is not going to make me very popular here, but my husband’s a gun owner. He’s also progressive. (It’s Texas.) He believes assault weapons and large magazines should be banned, potential gun owners should undergo a proficiency test and be licensed, and background checks should take into account all acts of violence—including animal harm. (ie. torturing small animals.) Any acts of violence wouldn’t only preclude someone getting a gun, but would result in guns being taken away.

@Sionnach
We can work with people who want to work with us. Most gun owners do want safe gun regulations. That's excellent and I hope we can meet in the middle to start.

However, the evidence shows as clear as can be that less or no guns cuts death and maiming down by huge bounds. At some point, society needs to move forward. As I've said before, lots of things were societally acceptable in the past that are no longer.

That's, to me, what puts the "progess" in "progressive."

Also, and not to state the obvious, but once you get to the "after" part of the violence, it's way, way, way too late.

@TonyStark
If we want to go past mass shootings. Hope we do. Handguns are used in suicides, partner murder, especially against women, most often mistakenly discharged at a family member.

Assualt-style weapons are in a different category, but handguns aren't safer for society.
@Sionnach

@Sunspot @TonyStark That’s true, but I sympathize with people like my husband wanting a handgun. He was assaulted when he was younger by three people and was unable to defend himself.

I know it’s not a popular opinion, but I do think we have to work with people who don’t agree with us on everything. He’s against the death penalty, believes healthcare is a human right and is married to a trans man. I think he’s pretty damn progressive.

@Sionnach
My cousin was killed at Pulse.

I've been assaulted. Guns make me have panic attacks and feel unsafe.

My son is gay and has been threatened with a gun. He doesn't want one.

Is there some point where we get listened to?

It's not the tragedy Olympics by the way but come on.
@TonyStark

@Sionnach

What we like at democracy.town is fact.

Facts are, guns don't make the owner safer. They make them less safe. They make everyone around less safe.

Facts over feelings.

Maria posted about this the other day, but there are lots of studies up and down her timelime as well as mine.

I'm also sorry for what's happened to anyone, but evidence on this is clear. That's actually contained in the article I first posted, too.

You are entitled to speak and certainly your husband is entitled to his opinion, but if you push back, it's pretty likely others will. And just to be super clear, lots of people on d-town are part of marginalized groups. Marginalized people should be listened to. They're not listened to enough.

But being a marginalized person doesn't make one automatically correct.

democracy.town/@MariaHill/1083
@Sunspot

@TonyStark @Sunspot
I get it. I really do. I’m just not sure we can realistically ban all guns. If we couldn’t ban them after Sandy Hook, I don’t know what it’s going to take.

I’m feeler, but I’m also a pragmatist. Meat is appalling and bad for the planet, but I don’t believe we’ll ever get everyone to go vegan. I support Meatless Monday because every little bit helps. Maybe someday everyone will be vegan and have no guns. Here’s hoping.

@Sionnach

I would like to have 0 guns, but I don't think we are going to get there. Not in my lifetime anyway. Maybe someday.

Democrats are willing to work with people who will compromise. That includes individuals who share some but not all of our goals. It's Republicans who are the absolutists. (There are exceptions, notably some of the members of the Squad, who have voted against bills that don't give everything they want. Though I am a progressive, I am concerned about electing any more members who won't compromise. Pramila Jayapal-style progressives are great. She'll hold out for as much as possible. Ones who will kill a bill when we have a four-vote majority in the House are a real concern.)

We can't have the perfect the be the enemy of the good.

Probably most of our active users at democracy.town are members of marginalized groups. We might have a majority of LGBTQ+ users. I don't keep track of how people identify but of the ones I know, a lot are.

@TonyStark @Sunspot

@TonyStark @Sunspot
I just wanted to add that I love all of you guys at democracy.town. I think we agree on most things. I don’t believe in letting the perfect be the enemy of the good (I stopped thinking that way in 2016, when I voted with the Green Party and have hated myself ever since) but I still love idealists. I’m grateful to you for wanting to change things. So do I.

I hope we’re able to move forward and do everything possible to turn the Senate blue.

@TonyStark

Those who want real security should take the first step and dispose of their guns.

We're all realistic enough to know, criminals will not give up their most important tool of the trade.

But what we already know then becomes even clearer: there is no difference between GQP/Republicans and criminals.

@Sionnach @Sunspot

@harmonyears2 @TonyStark @Sunspot
I’m sorry if I offended you or anyone else here. That wasn’t my original intention.

@Sionnach

I did not feel any insult. Just an exchange of thoughts and feelings/worries. Isn't that part of democratic discourse?😊

@TonyStark @Sunspot

@harmonyears2
I can deal with that one.

The only decent Republicans I've met left the party in the last few years or are on the way out. Not much good left, if any.
@Sionnach @Sunspot

@TonyStark @harmonyears2 @Sunspot
I hope other Greens crossed over too. It would be nice if there were more parties, but we really only have two viable choices—and only one is sane.

@Sionnach

I'm glad you vote for Democrats now. In Texas, your vote and those of your fellow Stein voters didn't change the outcome. If you lived in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Michigan, you could feel guilty. Work to elect Beto now to make up for it and make your state better for LGBTQ+ people and women/girls/anyone else who might need abortion care. ​🙂​ :tx:

I have a friend in Maryland who voted Green and regretted it too, but it's easier not to be angry both because of the regret and because the state went for Clinton. I had someone less close in Pennsylvania who voted Green and didn't regret it, and I don't talk to them any more. I was too angry and had too much work to do for four years to put up with someone who only wanted to complain about Democrats not being progressive enough.

@TonyStark @harmonyears2 @Sunspot

@Sunspot

I'm so sorry.

I would be surprised to find an American who hasn't been touched by gun violence.

I get tired of going to candlelight vigils.

@Sionnach @TonyStark

@MariaHill
In Florida, it seems we all know someone which makes it all the more frustrating.

Thank you.
@Sionnach @TonyStark

@Sionnach
I understand your compassion, I understand the fear and the desire to be able to defend yourself. (whenever I see Trump or Putin in the media, I wish I had a gun...). But the fear remains, especially with a gun. Fear only goes away when you trust/trust yourself and other people. Dictators/republicans and the NRA thrive on this fear and therefore keep it alive.
By the way, the Ukraine war will not be decided by guns in the end, but by solidarity with Ukrainians
@Sunspot @TonyStark

@TonyStark @Sionnach Most of the people in my circle at work have been adopted a no guns stance at least for now after Uvalde. When you've asked for years for gun safety and Republicans ignore it, then there's yet another tragedy that could legitimately be stopped, it's not that we haven't tried to meet in the middle.

Whatever our offer is, theirs is always no and more guns. People are tired.

@CarolDanvers
I just got to attend an event this afternoon and believe me, you're not the only one who feels that way.
@Sionnach

@TonyStark I still say, you’d think Americans would be the ones wanting to carry, a shield…

@TonyStark
(The Republican party wants to know what works? It's not arming teachers. It's definitely not a whole system of security at a school. It's not leaving kids inside a cement block with one door. )

WHICH IS FUCKING Annoying that "that's" not COMMING Fucking sense...I'm sitting over here...steaming m8.

Bunch of Dumbasses M8.

Soul

@brothersoul
I know, man. Hard to take some days.

Thanks for the music from over there. It helps in these times.

@TonyStark The Republican Party succeeds by drastically reducing critical thinking. I believe this is the biggest long-term threat to the nation’s populace.

It’s also the most difficult to affect. While the US slides into 1776 levels of aggression and patriarchy, *most* of today’s issues can be corrected by a few policy changes which take some amount of luck and effort to get through. But the longterm damage is to thought and thinking itself. I have no idea how to reverse this course.

@raineer
I understand that feeling but we have to keeping forward, regardless.

They want us to give up. We don't.

I can't say what will work for sure. Nobody knows the future. I do know that we need to focus on what we can do and resist helplessness. You can help with that by not spreading it, too. Some find that helpful, as well.

@raineer @TonyStark There are lots of approaches. It’s harder to fix republicans than it is to motivate others into action (to vote & to boycott). Read this thread & the RAND article linked therein: mastodon.social/@zeruch/108397 Scientific research on gun policy is hindered by lack of sponsorship from the feds.

@TonyStark @raineer Even if you have all the critical thinking you want you still need to feed those brains w/scientific results. So one angle of attack is to tap the anger of those who know better & turn it into action: boycott the #ALEC corps that finance the NRA politicans who are likely serving as an obsticle to research. The helplessness ppl feel after a shooting needs to change into action.

@raineer

Not alone, in these times it is more important than ever to be politically active and in solidarity. Protest should also be thought creatively. A stricter gun law would be a goal to bring groups and initiatives together? From climate activists to civil rights activists?
My favorite example from recent history:

youtu.be/kZfFvsKDuUU

@TonyStark

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